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Discussion Starter #1
Trying to decide to buy 2020 model now or wait to see if 2021 model comes out with D-CVT, a tranmission that Toyota plans to put into 80% of it cars by 2023.
 

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Only if Toyota gets a clue and puts in the same engine used in the UX and the Corolla HB. Both those cars utilize the same engine hence why they both have the CVT with the physical 1st gear/launch gear.
 

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Thanks for your comment. Using the Toyota website comparison tool, I generated a 10 page long list of comparisons between the C-HR, Corolla HB, and the UX 200. Attached are the engine specs for the 3 cars. I wonder if the Corolla HB uses the same TNGA platform as the other two use.
 

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All three are using the TNGA platform. This is why I keep saying it's inexcusable for Toyota to neuter the C-HR so badly especially for the North American market. I did a write up in another thread how Toyota spent millions doing a refresh/update of the C-HR for overseas markets to include a whole new hybrid engine. We only get a face lift.
 
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If I can get 28" of vertical clearance between the floor and the ceiling at the back of the Corolla HB, enough to allow two road bikes to be positioned vertically side by side, then I may skip the C-HR and go for the Corolla with D-CVT and the stronger engine.
 

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I went into the Toyota dealer initially looking to buy a Corolla HB. I wasn't really interested in the CVT trans the HB has. I was going for the 6 speed manual. What turned me off to the HB which killed the deal was the trunk. I know Toyota publishes the trunk space to be within 2 cubic feet of the C-HR. It's total bunk. However Toyota packaged the interior and the severely sloping lift gate makes the trunk area almost unusable. You're not going to be able to haul much of anything with the rear seats up. For me I don't want to make a choice between taking my daughter with me in a car seat or going shopping to haul anything of significant quantity/size.

With both cars, You're not going to be able to haul two bikes with the rear seats down vertically as you want. I just measured the clearance between the trunk floor and the lip of the hatch area. It's about 26.5" at the tallest part. I think it's about 25 to 26" on the edges as the opening tapers down.

I think you're better off installing a tow hitch and getting a platform bike rack. This is what I did on my C-HR. And per the instructions and because both cars are TNGA, the tow hitch is the same. I got mine from Curt but Drawtite also makes one. If you don't need trunk space with the rear seats up, then by all means get the Corolla HB.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
With both cars, you’re not going to be able to haul two bikes with the rear seats down vertically as you want. I just measured the clearance between the trunk floor and the lip of the hatch area. It's about 26.5" at the tallest part. I think it's about 25 to 26" on the edges as the opening tapers down.
The photo here shows one of the two bikes that we transport in a safe and secure manner in a 2011 Matrix. The distance between the floor and the handlebar stem is 23". The other bike belonging to my neighbor has the handlebar stem height about an inch higher. Both bikes have the same rear wheel size (26.5"). In the Matrix I have 6" of clearance between the rear ceiling and the top of the handlebar stem. I have already taken this same bike to the dealer to test in a C-HR while just placing the bike on the carpet of the rear of the C-HR hatch (no false plywood floor, no bike fork adapter); the bike just barely cleared the slanted rear hatch door. The dealer then suggested removing the C-HR carpeted rear floor panel and that I make a smaller plywood floor to rest on top of the spare tire, allowing me to gain at least another half inch of clearance. At the same time I remember looking at a Corolla HB and just by using a tape measure, I concluded that the bike would probably not fit in the Corolla, but I hope to re-confirm this measurement when I return to the dealer next time with my neighbor's taller bike.

Of course we always have to remove the bike seats each time we load the bikes (we use a torque wrench to safely re-install the seats in the carbon bike frames). We use nylon hold down straps to steady the bikes from wobbling, so the next new car must have metal tie-down loops, like the Matrix and C-HR have. The front bike wheels are vertically stored next to the rear side doors - attached to the ceiling handles using Velcro straps. And finally a curtain of ballistic nylon fabric is hooked onto the front seat headrests to keep the seats clean where the bike rear wheels protrude into the space above the central console.

Hard to imagine choosing a new car based on the requirement to accommodate one's bike in this fashion. Even more surprising is making the choice of car to additionally accommodate one's neighbor's taller bike frame.



The things that we do for sports……..
 

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The Corolla HB's hatch is slanted more aggressively so count on less room than the C-HR. One thing that is upsetting which I don't understand why Toyota won't make this available for us North American buyers. Overseas, they don't have the spare tire as standard. Instead they have an inflation/repair kit. By going to the repair kit, it allows the trunk floor of the C-HR to be dropped by a few inches. I tried to look up the part numbers for the spacers and kit needed to lower the trunk floor, no dice. Talking to a Toyota dealer about looking up the parts to order, they said not a chance. He said even if he were able to locate the part numbers to make the conversion, Toyota will not allow him to order the parts.

How come you're resistant to putting on a tow hitch and using a platform bike rack? It makes things so convenient. Easy loading and don't have to mess with taking any of the wheels off. The bike rack I have allows me to tilt it away to gain full access to the trunk even with the bikes loaded on the rack.
 

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How come you're resistant to putting on a tow hitch and using a platform bike rack? It makes things so convenient. Easy loading and don't have to mess with taking any of the wheels off. The bike rack I have allows me to tilt it away to gain full access to the trunk even with the bikes loaded on the rack.
Thanks for posting.


Our fine tuned road bikes are normally kept super clean. My neighbor and I are both retired and can choose our single outing days in order to avoid potential rain. Stowing bikes inside the car keeps them cleaner in case it starts to rain while driving. We typically drive 1 hour from our suburban homes to reach a starting point of a bike route in the country. If we were using mountain bikes, an outside rack would be less of an issue. When I am taking a multi-day vacation, having a bike inside the car keeps it more secure from theft when I stop at a restaurant or motel. I would rather have an errant driver back into my bare bumper than into my bike strapped to it.


Trying to remain on track with this forum thread, I would like to remind myself that given that I want to stay with a Toyota product, the smallest current Toyota vehicle that can store my road bike inside appears to be the C-HR.


After 26 years of owning popular and reliable manual tranny Corolla/Matrix cars, going to a C-HR means acquiring a less popular car which doesn't have as vast an aftermarket for parts as the Corolla and also facing the unknown reliability of a CVT transmission.


Perhaps it is wishful thinking on my part to imagine that the latest generation D-CVT would be more reliable and worth waiting for.
 

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I'll just say one more thing about using the platform rack. Yes, you run the risk of getting your bike dirty if it rains. But to me it's not a big deal to just wash/wipe it down later. As to the security aspect, the bike rack I use has locking vertical clamps. It comes with a anti-rattle bolt that secures the rack to the hitch. That anti-rattle bolt has a locking mechanism which uses the same key as the vertical clamps. And if that security isn't enough for you, the manufacturer sells a cable which you can use to run through the bike's wheels and secure it to said anti-rattle bolt. I don't worry about my bike's security with this setup at all. And as to anyone backing into the rack/bikes. Just back into a parking spot.

There has been some question about the reliability of the CVTs used in the C-HR by some posters here. I don't know if this is wide spread as I haven't seen any complaints on the European C-HR forum. Not saying the CVT used in the HB is going to be any less reliable, but there was that recall on some of the early run 2019 HBs on the CVT trans and the torque converter.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Not saying the CVT used in the HB is going to be any less reliable, but there was that recall on some of the early run 2019 HBs on the CVT trans and the torque converter.
I would rather hope that the D-CVT on the HB would be more reliable. I think the HB recall only concerned the torque converter.

Direct Shift-CVT: A New Type of Continuously Variable Transmission | Toyota's New Powertrain | TNGA | Mobility | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

The D-CVT is like an automatic transmission with a similar hydraulic valve body, without the sun and planetary gears, but with hydraulic clutch plates (for neutral), and with an added single launch gear borrowed from a manual transmission, and with an added pair of variable diameter pulleys and belt.

Apart from the slight gain in gas mileage (6%) of the D-CVT, one has to ask if the launch gear removes a certain degree of stress on the pulley system, as the latter only kicks in after a minimum vehicle speed has been attained. City cars with a lot of stop and go might benefit more from this feature than cars that stay all the time on the interstate.

I spent an hour watching a video showing a CVT being disassembled and I am impressed with the engineering. I am relieved to learn that the belt is not a pull type rubber belt as I had originally imagined but a push belt composed of 400 metal plates stacked in a continuous loop and held together by thin steel bands. I still wonder how all the moving belt and pulley parts don't wear even though there is supposed to be no slipping between contact surfaces.

I'm not sure where the weakest link is in a standard CVT assembly, the valve body?, the belt system?, or the clutch plates? But a CVT seems much more complex than any of the 5 manual transmissions that I have ever owned.
 

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Automatic transmissions in general have inherent wear as part of their design. Even the traditional geared ones versus the belt/CVT designs. This is why auto trans' has filters in them along with a magnet at the bottom of the oil pan to catch metal debris. The metal plates you're talking about have grooved surfaces that mate against the pulley to provide the friction necessary to spin the final drive assembly.

Not sure what you mean by clutch plates as a CVT does not have one. With the Jatco trans which Nissan and some other manufacturers use, it appears the failures have been the steel belt and the pulley system which causes changes to the drive ratio. Just be glad we're not talking about a Jatco sourced trans here. And of course any auto trans is going to be more complex than a manual gear box. For a manual gear box, the only typical failures I've seen are either the synchros or the shift fork. For autos trans', the list can be extensive.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Not sure what you mean by clutch plates as a CVT does not have one.
If you have the time, in this video they disassemble a 2013 Nissan CVT (JF015E) and part way through (22 minutes) they get to a clutch assembly which controls the forward/reverse drive to pulley (variator) number 1 through the use of a planetary and sun gear set which gets activated by the valve body hydraulic pressure.

I believe that there is a similar style clutch (without gears) in the torque converter to lock it at cruising speed.


 

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Thanks for the correction. Learn something new everyday. I wonder how different the Aisin trans being used in the Toyotas are from the Jatcos.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
You are welcome. I would hope that the designs are slightly different. I still haven’t decided whether to buy now or wait and see what the 2021 model looks like.
 

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Long time lurker - just wanted to say that I'm also waiting for the 2021 model information to get released. I hope the direct shift CVT does make it over.. seems like it would take a lot of stress out of the band. Also, I've seen reviews that the new Corolla that has the launch gear makes the car much much faster..

Here's to hoping crosses fingers

**edit also hope the manual transmission comes over but.. I seriously doubt it will... would be nice...
 

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What makes the Corolla faster isn't the transmission. It's mainly the engine. I don't know if the hoped for transmission would mate up to the current 2.0L 4 banger that is being used in the C-HR now. I doubt it. I personally feel the entire power train from the Corolla HB has to be brought over. And I'm seriously doubting that will happen given how they've neglected the NA market. We get minor cosmetic tweaks while the overseas market gets a whole new hybrid power plant.
 
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Not sure if the D-CVT will be in the 2021 C-HR, but may be only in the Corolla Cross (doubt that as well).
 

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Just buy the car when you need it, no need to keep waiting though, this way you'll keep waiting for the best car until you don't need one :)
 
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