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Yikes - reading this with 180 miles on a new 2022.

zx10guy - I looked (skimmed) the maintenance book log for my car. I am a 'by the book' maintenance guy and this has served me well on all kinds cars, outboards and small engines. I looked out to over 60k miles in the book and did not see Toyota recommending a fluid change. Did I miss it - do you know the manufacturer recommendation on trans fluid interval?
 

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Yikes - reading this with 180 miles on a new 2022.

zx10guy - I looked (skimmed) the maintenance book log for my car. I am a 'by the book' maintenance guy and this has served me well on all kinds cars, outboards and small engines. I looked out to over 60k miles in the book and did not see Toyota recommending a fluid change. Did I miss it - do you know the manufacturer recommendation on trans fluid interval?
There is no listing. If you read my past posts on this topic, Toyota, BMW, and many other manufacturers which advertise "lifetime" fluids will not list a maintenance interval. They do this to fool the common consumer that their cost of ownership will be lower than it really should be. If you talk to any trans specialist, they will all unequivocally state to maintain the life/reliability of the transmission to do somewhat regular fluid changes. For transmissions, it's typically around 50 to 60k.

BMW used to push out oil change intervals to 12 to 15k miles. This is absolutely ridiculous; especially with their move to turbo charged engines. They started to see increased numbers of failures due to oil break down. Since then, they've adjusted their recommended oil change intervals. I myself have chosen to split the difference and change the oil around the 7k mark with my 135i. On my C-HR, I feel comfortable sticking with the 10k service intervals because of the quality of synthetic oils I use along with the type of driving I do. With the number of miles I have on my car that is just over 3 years old, I drive a fair amount. Much of it is highway and not a lot of stop and go which is the most abuse you can put your car through.

Back to the trans fluid intervals, I talked to my dealer initially about doing the service to my trans. The first answer I got was the pre-canned, you don't have to do anything. I pressed further and was transferred to another service writer which seemed to know more and he said they typically recommend doing it at the 100k mark. And as I said above, it's not just Toyota. With my 135i, BMW has no service interval listed for the DCT trans. Yet, it's common knowledge with the enthusiast crowd to get the fluid serviced well before the 100k mark which I did on my 135i.

In the end, it's your car. Not saying this is written in stone. But my C-HR is at just over 82k miles with no issues with the trans and I did the fluid service. So your car....your money.
 

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zx10guy - appreciate the feedback. I don't know where you're located, but dealers most certainly do not shy away from recommending/stating you need costly over maintenance, from my experience. Other than for warranty work, I will not go to them for this reason.

I also do not believe Toyota is leaving this out to lower the maintenance cost because, at the 50-60k-100k interval, its in the noise in terms of the overall maintenance cost rollup. I find it interesting that you choose to perform maintenance that isn't recommended by Toyota for the tranny, but then 2X exceed their recommendation on oil changes. I got that you're thinking the highway miles are not as hard on the oil. But, I just am not following that logic. Oil changes are cheap, relatively speaking (especially DIY). If I saw a car that had documented 10k oil changes when the manufacturer called for 5k, I would probably pass on a used purchase, all other things being equal.

I am not saying your wrong and I am right. 86k miles anecdotally on a Toyota historically is nothing so fluid change vs no fluid change at these miles should be meaningless. Again, historically speaking as far as the reputation that one can put miles on a Toyota with no problems. 175k on a 2007 Matrix, no tranny service and ran like a top with untold problem free miles. I am expecting the same out of this car and will be highly disappointed if that is not the case. I may consider a tranny service for some insurance, at some point, depending on the cost. Thanks for the feedback. This forum is not very active, so its hard to get a sense of what kind of numbers were talking about here. 3 or 4 people posting a problem isn't really telling of anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #124 ·
Hey Chad!
I appreciate your input.
Just one correction, if I may... At my last count on this thread (as well as another thread on this site)there were at least 9 failures and that count was at least a year or so ago. A few more have been reported since then but, I've stopped counting.
Again, I appreciate you as well as zx10. Just pointing out that this problem is not limited to 3-4 vehicles. There's definitely a trend here...
PS : I am the OP.

Thanx to EVERYONE for their input on this issue.
 

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zx10guy - appreciate the feedback. I don't know where you're located, but dealers most certainly do not shy away from recommending/stating you need costly over maintenance, from my experience. Other than for warranty work, I will not go to them for this reason.

I also do not believe Toyota is leaving this out to lower the maintenance cost because, at the 50-60k-100k interval, its in the noise in terms of the overall maintenance cost rollup. I find it interesting that you choose to perform maintenance that isn't recommended by Toyota for the tranny, but then 2X exceed their recommendation on oil changes. I got that you're thinking the highway miles are not as hard on the oil. But, I just am not following that logic. Oil changes are cheap, relatively speaking (especially DIY). If I saw a car that had documented 10k oil changes when the manufacturer called for 5k, I would probably pass on a used purchase, all other things being equal.

I am not saying your wrong and I am right. 86k miles anecdotally on a Toyota historically is nothing so fluid change vs no fluid change at these miles should be meaningless. Again, historically speaking as far as the reputation that one can put miles on a Toyota with no problems. 175k on a 2007 Matrix, no tranny service and ran like a top with untold problem free miles. I am expecting the same out of this car and will be highly disappointed if that is not the case. I may consider a tranny service for some insurance, at some point, depending on the cost. Thanks for the feedback. This forum is not very active, so its hard to get a sense of what kind of numbers were talking about here. 3 or 4 people posting a problem isn't really telling of anything.
It's not really in the noise when you look at a full tranny service costing around $500 to 600 which was what my dealer quoted me. How many of you would think that's trivial? And it is 100% about giving the potential buyer that owning a particular car with less maintenance requirements is a big selling point. Ducati had done this as again how many of you all wouldn't choke on a $1400 bill for routine service....yes that's how much it costs. As I said, I asked my Toyota dealer and had to press them on the trans service. If the dealer was in it solely to have a money grab as many anti-dealership people insinuate, they wouldn't have hesitated in selling me this service. Same with my BMW dealership. I asked them about doing a full service on my DCT trans, and they said the trans doesn't need it.

As to your example about your Matrix, you're comparing two different types of transmissions. The transmission in the Matrix is a fully geared transmission. The ones in our C-HRs are CVTs which means one metal belt that is spun around by a variable movement pulley system. How your car moves with this system is purely by friction where the belt sits on the pulley. So you tell me whether you would trust fluid in this trans after significant number of miles. This is outside of the servo/pump systems that are used to apply hydraulic pressure to make the pulleys shift in and out on axis to simulate gearing changes. And we're not even talking about fluid break down and wear over time.

You need to read your warranty and maintenance guide again concerning what Toyota recommends as oil change intervals for this car. Per this guide....you only change the engine oil and filter at 5k intervals if one of the following conditions apply:

1) Driving on dirt road or dusty roads
2) Driving while towing, using a car-top carrier, or heavy vehicle loading
3) Repeated trips of less than five miles in temperatures below 32 degrees F
4) Extensive idling and/or low speed driving for a long distance such as police, taxi, or door to door delivery use

Do any of those apply to you? It doesn't for me. Those conditions qualify per Toyota for a 5k mile oil/filter change interval. Everything else is listed for 10k miles. Also, as part of Toyota Care where you get free oil changes for the first two years of ownership, try going in to the dealer at 5k miles to get your free oil change. I tried and they pointed me to the maintenance guide. Oil technology has gotten so good lately that 10k mile oil changes are not outlandish. Yes, oil changes are cheap. I do my own maintenance work on pretty much all my vehicles: two cars, three motorcycles, whole house back up generator, and two lawn care engines. But I rather not spend money needlessly for no large additional benefit and it's also wasteful when it's not absolutely needed. Going by color of the oil is not a good indication of the quality of the oil. The only way to check on the quality of the oil is to send it off to a facility such as Blackstone to get an oil analysis. The one thing I did do outside of the norm was changing the oil in my C-HR around 600 to 1k miles on the odometer...forget the exact mileage. This was to ensure I got any metal particles out of the engine during the break in period. I've done this on all of my vehicles.

As to my anecdotal statement of my car exceeding 82k miles and not having a problem, yes, it is anecdotal. Just as those screaming about their trans failures. This forum is only a small sampling of all C-HR owners out there. So you can't draw clear conclusions as to the actual reliability of these trans. Also, those that are upset/angry/dissatisfied are the ones that will post up their displeasure more often than those that are happy or satisfied. I have asked point blank to those that have had transmission failures if they've done a trans fluid service. Not one has responded to date. Which I would have to assume the answer is no. There are two of us that have responded that we've had our trans service done. My accounting is so far the highest mileage vehicle with the trans fluid service done on here. Also as part of a relevancy, many of the reported trans failures are in the 50k through 70k miles window. My reporting of my mileage shows that I'm well beyond that window with no issues.
 
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